Like Isis, Thomas More believed passionately in burning people alive – Kate Maltby
Five Queensland Attorney’s General turned their backs on blacks, poor, aged, weak, gullible and vulnerable. They are:
| Cameron Dick | Labor | 26 March 2009 | 21 February 2011 |
| Paul Lucas | Labor | 21 February 2011 | 24 March 2012 |
| Jarrod Bleijie | Liberal National | 3 April 2012 | 14 February 2015 |
| Yvette D’Ath | Labor | 16 February 2015 | 12 November 2020 |
| Shannon Fentiman | Labor | 13 November 2020 | Incumbent |
Cameron Dick and Paul Lucas led the surge toward privatisation under the Bligh government, selling off the public’s largest asset, Queensland Rail. Jarrod Bleiijie had a hand in Campbell-Newman’s sacking 14,000 Queensland public servants in 2012 – 2015. It was Bleiijie and his CEO who told Bernie Neville (I was a witness) in August 2012 that he just had to accept that a Labor (spelt with a ‘u’: ‘c-o-r-r-u-p-t’) Public Trustee was a necessary evil in Queensland because it would cost too much for the government to buy out his contract of employment. There is a curious gap in that contract of employment between Peter Carne and the Attorney. Carne stood down on full pay in early 2014 till when he was re-instated by Labor’s Yvette D’Ath in 2016. Who was the Public Trustee in the interim? It was Mark Crofton who acted as Public Trustee during Carne’s first period in the wilderness on full pay.
If Queensland had a REGISTER OF DISCIPLINARY ACTION for lawyers, Peter Carne should top the list. Mark Crofton would be a close second because the man is a liar. Crofton said he was going to prosecute the fraudsters, instead he joined with them and went after the one remaining asset that Carl Ross Taylor had, his house.
On 8 Dec 2011 Mark Crofton said that he would pursue the fraudsters: “I personally ran the Banh Case case so I’m personally looking at these tests genuinely I’m I’m a property law specialist by trade some things you can make right and some things you can’t … I will I’ll certainly approach it with the kind of endeavor that you would want us to.”
Allegations of corruption at the Public Trustee’s office surfaced in 2009 when he failed to act against fraudulent activity by Brian Laver and Will Marcus who together stole over $1.2M from Carl Ross Taylor, the sole owner of AHIMSA house at 26 Horan Street West End. Peter Carne orchestrated the demise of AHIMSA house and its sale by merchant banker, Challenger later bought out by WestPac.
Carne, Crofton and Campbell managed to persuade sage supreme court judge, Mr Justice Martin, in 2012 to allow Accountants Sabdia to steal Carl Ross Taylor’s sole remaining asset, his family home at Sunnybank where he had lived since 1978. If the meticulous judge was not ashamed of what he did why did he seal counsel’s opinion that said that Carl Ross Taylor had every chance of recovering his property. Fortunately by some incompetent slip up I managed to see the entire file before it was made secret and could view for myself the travesty that was before us, the supporters of Ross: Sam Watson Jnr, Bernie Neville and myself. Sadly I am the sole survivor to tell the tale that should not be told.
Fittingly, the Premier at the time, Anna Bligh, went on to become head of the Australian Banking Association to defend unconscionable behaviour, unethical investments and outright fraud. I spoke to her erstwhile Attorney and Minister for Justice and aptly named, Cameron Dick, about the injustices handed out by the Public Trustee on 21st August 2010, I asked Cameron Dick “Is it legal to kill a blackfella in Queensland?” This conversation occurred at Coorparoo Primary School polling booth on the day of the 2010 federal election. In reply the attorney general, Cameron Dick, said of the police officer who murdered Mulrunji: “Chris Hurley had been acquitted (of manslaughter) and so the matter is closed.”
I wrote to Attorneys D’Ath and Fentiman but neither has lifted a finger to insist that the public trustee help the poor, the aged, the weak, the gullible and the vulnerable by offering financial assistance without fee gouging, asset stripping and risky investments via the Queensland Investment Corporation.
I provided attorneys general and the public trustee with all the documentation and asked for a forensic audit to demonstrate the fraud perpetrated by Brian Laver, Will Marcus and Sabdia accountants. Below is the transcript of the meeting with the public trustee and his officers on 8 December 2011 where all of the allegations were put to the public trustee.
Ian Curr
8 Nov 2022
Transcript of proceedings 8 Dec 2011
You Can Not Trust the Public Trustee!
8 Dec 2011
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
laver, trustee, building, ross, advice, challenger, talking, administrator, peter, bank, lawyer, marcus, people, public, case, information, waive, legal advice, loan, privilege
SPEAKERS
Maggie, Solicitor for the Public Trustee (Mark Crofton), Bernie Neville (former POA for Ross Taylor), Ian Curr (Support person), Public Trustee (Peter Carne), Eliza (cameraperson), Ross Taylor (owner of AHIMSA house), Katrina (PR and Marketing), Ian Campbell (Solicitor), Greg Chappell (Accountant).
Katrina
What’s your name? Hi, can I help you? I’m Katrina (??) I’m the director of marketing and communication.
Bernie Neville
I want to see the public trustee?
Katrina
Yeah, absolutely. If you’d like to follow me he’s gonna meet you on level 10, the training room, … sorry it’s just that nobody told me you were here. I went to the bathroom and I rang Peter … his name is Peter Carne …
Bernie Neville
(wryly) Is that Can or Can’t
Katrina
(missing the riposte) Carne C-A-R-N-E … next door … there we go thanks guys. We really appreciate it. What are we doing today?
Peter Carne
Hello? Oh yeah. Hello, I know your brother John, don’t I. I think I knew you from university days. You were President of the Students Union at one stage weren’t you.
Ian Curr
No I was the Education Vice-President.
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
Hello …
Bernie Neville
I’m Bernie Neville.
Bernie Neville
I’ve heard of you, Bernie
Maggie
I’m Maggie, thank you.
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
How can I help you. What’s the problem?
Maggie
We’ve got some questions about what’s happening with the property.
Ian Curr
Just before we go on, could you introduce yourselves.
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
Oh certainly, Peter Carne, public trustee ..
Ian Campbell
Ian Campbell is my name.
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
Ian is the lawyer who has been handling the file … Greg Chapell is a lawyer … Greg has banking experience, very experienced banking lawyer. Mark Crofton. Mark Crifton is the deputy public trustee and official solicitor … he heads up our legal team. So Ross youhave some questions.
Ross Taylor
Number one, what has happened to my building at 26 Horan Street, West End?
Peter Carne
Well, I think you should put that question to the Challenger Bank and the lawyers Norton Rose, I think they’re the lawyers for Challenger Bank. We have no control. We cannot have any to do with that. It is totally out of our hands.
Bernie Neville
Excuse me, yes, on the 12th of October 2009 when we had, the Friends of the AHIMSA house, had control of AHIMSA house we was $13,000 in debt to Challenger bank. Now I’d approached the unions and I’d got tenants in there … was about to get tenants in there … a woman from the clothing and footwear (union), and in one of the smallest offices in that building, and they was paying $20,000 a year for it. I was well informed that the unions will sending the tenants across to me. But on the say so of Will Marcus, I believe, you came into the picture. Now as public trustee, and having the fiduciary for Carl Ross Taylor, you was responsible for that building, that you took it a deeper into debt and all the tenants vacated that building … you you took equity out of that building by mismanagement. Now you are responsible for the Challenger Bank taking over that building. There’s no ifs or buts about it. Now, when I got Frank Carroll, criminal lawyer , to give me power of attorney and a revocation of the power of attorney for Brian Laver and I had him removed from that building. We got together a group of people with friends. And we went and approached Frank Carroll again, and we was getting a board of trustees brought into it, right. Now. Let’s have a look what’s happened over the past two years. I don’t know what friends Brian Laver has or what the Laver name, what protection it gives him or his partner, Barrister Given, but nothing has been done about that man till today. I’ve give you information, upon information, of the fudged figures given to John George and to Barry Sims of figures and lies to the Challenger Bank to raise another loan . But I’ve got a letter here, where it says this man was sick at the time. What Commercial One, John Plowright, said. He went to challenge your bank and said that that loan should not be given … that loan should not be given. But what happened was, Brian Laver hot footed it up to Noosa to see his mate, his old school mate, Geoff Rigby. Now this man has probably got law experience, but no medical experience. But he assessed this man. And he got him to sign papers, that in itself was fraud. Now when we’re looking at it, and these financial advisors a loan of $600,000 odd was taken with the bank of Queensland, that could not be serviced. So these people, these financial advisors, gave their backing with the fudged figures … fudged figures and lies to the Challenger Bank to raise another loan of $1.3 million. All that money’s gone missing. It’s a criminal act, you will act on this woman and rightly so. But she came off the rank after Carl Ross Taylor case. And you pursued that. Now you just wait, just wait, just wait. Just wait, I will not interrupt you. I will not interrupt you when you start talking. Right. criminal activities have taken place here, you go down to 5 Marley Street, and you see that his (Laver) house has been refurbished fully out of this man’s money. I give to you Ian (Campbell) the name of a woman, a jeweller that I traced myself, after all, for all his jewellry, and you never interviewed that woman, you never got in touch with her. But this man’s jewellry is worth $48,000 … the crimes that have been committed against this man and not pursued is a disgrace and absolute disgrace.
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
According to you and the emphasis and the point you’re making very strongly is the criminal activity as you call it of Brian Laver, please go to the police. The police are there to investigate criminal activity, not this organization.
Bernie Neville
What did you tell me when I sat down with Mitch Thompson and Robert Gaines, that you would go to the police you would treat as a fraud. And that was this time last year, …
Ian Campbell
What I said to you was that this stuff … got to a situation where we couldn’t help you here in a civil thing, we would make available stuff for you to take, we
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
We will make it available … all the records of we’d have all the material we’d have we’ll give it to you to give to the police.
Bernie Neville
OK. Thank you very much I’ll appreciate that. But what we want at this moment in time, what we want at this moment in time and require at this moment in time is the power of this office to go to Challenger Bank and wind that loan back to March 17 (2007) till this criminal investigations has taken place. We do not want that building selling because it belongs to the community. It was given to the community, and it was stolen from the community.
Maggie
Yeah, the other thing is that when, on false information, that you were given by Will Marcus, who I think you’ve probably found out now is a pathological liar, like his friend Brian Laver. You acted on that. And we will assume in good faith thinking that Ross was being ripped off again and yet when Laver was asked to come in and to answer questions, he said he was busy. This is a man who coaches tennis on Saturday mornings, and plays three hours of tennis on Wednesday he was ….
Ian Chappell
(Interupts) I am not happy about this camera. What are you doing here
Eliza
Just providing a record for …
Greg Chapell
For whom?
Eliza
… both of us.
Greg Chappell
Have you asked for our authority?
Eliza
Yes, Peter was aware that I was recording from the beginning.
Peter Carne
I wasn’t sure what this video was about. So Mark (Crofton) you want to make a point.
Mark Crofton
I’m a bit concerned about a range of things. The first thing is that the public trustee, Peter, has been appointed as administrator.
Mark Crofton
It is it is … that there are very strict requirements as to confidentiality about the affairs for which the public trustee or anybody is appointed as administrator. It is not appropriate. And indeed, in some respects it is unlawful for there to be a publishing or a discussion of those affairs with others. That’s a function of the Guardianship and Administration Act. So, without speaking to this particular matter, can I suggest that we cannot lawfully discuss the intricacies of this matter when we know that it’s going to be published, because it’s been videoed, it is just not lawful.
Ian Curr
Why?
Mark Crofton
Because the Guardianship Act prevents … it can only disclose, let alone publish information, information about an adult for whom we were appointed, as administrator when it is lawfully appropriate to do so. And otherwise you are not allowed to
Ian Curr
Ross has asked us
Mark Crofton
… I appreciate that. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. But again, with the greatest of respect to Mr. Ross Taylor, the Tribunal has appointed the public trustees (as) his administrator, it is not possible for anybody, including Mr. Ross Taylor to waive the requirements of the law, and to generally publish information about his affairs.
Ian Curr
Why did you assume that it would be published?
Mark Crofton
I’m not making an assumption about anything. I make an observation that the recording of material generally is for republishing. And so and so more generally, I just make that observation. The second observation I’d like to make and the advice I’ve given to (inaudible), we need to … look Peter is content and happy to have a discussion about these affairs, but, quite appropriately, you you’ve suggested they involve legal issues, and the capacity to review the actions of others. So as I understand it, the concern is about the public trustee taking some action against others in respect of actions they took prior to the public trustee’s involvement. And the concern is please, would you please take some action? Because others have done the wrong thing by Mr. Ross Taylor … just let me finish. All of those matters, and more generally, have been referred for legal advice. Counsel has been engaged to advise so a barrister is advising and that is appropriate and necessary, and might I also add, the Public Trustee corporately has paid for that advice. In those circumstances, and I’m not looking to to make any other point then, the public trustee has sought to act and get advice. Beyond that, though, I’m very concerned that to others you refer to … that we cannot and should not waive privilege over that advice (baby gurgles). If if, in general terms, the advice were to be discussed, the content of the advice (baby noises) is anything beyond the fact that I’ve suggested to you that advice exists that we talked about the detail of it, and it’s published and its waving. confidential and privileged, Peters right. Now, if he waives privilege, by speaking about the advice, another party who might want that advice, again, same privilege has been waived. Therefore, you can we can have a copy of that advice. Now, clearly, when we’re talking about here, possible litigation, and that’s what we are talking about where … that’s the purpose for which the advice was sought. We desperately do not want to run the risk, or any risk, that the parties against whom we might litigate, can get a copy of our own advice. So appreciate that my advice, which which Peter’s authorized me to share with you, his first: the law doesn’t allow him to generally talk about Mr. Ross Taylor’s affairs now that’s not Peter’s concern. I need to advise, Peter, but I do so generally for you, that it’s just not lawful to republish and talk about the affairs about an adult who QCAT has determined to have an incapacity. It’s not appropriate to talk about his financial affairs generally, particularly if there’s a prospect of republishing or at least. So I understand that there’s a reticence … second, we cannot, sorry, Peter (Carne) can waive legal advice over legal advice he’s obtained. Peter would be unwise to do so, and has given me instructions that he intends not to … not because of concern to discuss with Mr. Ross Taylor and his close supporters, of whom you clearly are , not have concern for that, but concern that the fact of the waiver of privilege and action which allows the document or the advice to be known to any other may be taken as a waiver of privilege generally. And that allows, in the course of litigation, I’ll give you a scenario, let’s not use this this affair, an advice exists from me. I’m a lawyer … I’m an official lawyer … there is a general discussion and let’s say a public forum, a meeting, … about the content of that, (baby noises) a discussion about what the advice said, at that point, privilege is waived. If we sue, the public trustee were to sue, based upon the advice and it’s a good idea, the suit the purpose, that person is entitled to that advice. Let’s assume for the moment, as advisors do, that it says ‘these are the strengths of your case and these are the weaknesses of your case’. That of course, gives the opportunity to the opposing person to exploit the weaknesses of the case. Now, this isn’t a fanciful, this isn’t an unusual, this isn’t a unique concern. It happens and it’s happened frequently in litigation. So understand, finally, and just in summary, Peter (Carne) cannot talk about confidential affairs of Mr. Ross Taylor, generally with others, because the Act doesn’t allow him. Second, he cannot talk about the advice. Peter, Peter has instructed me to to let you know, that advice, including information, which has been very usefully supplied by some people in this room, advice is being sought and is being considered presently. And finally, on I might say this, Peter is also very, very conscious, more conscious today than he was yesterday, let me say about the concerns in respect of this particular property. We understand the issue. Sorry, I’m just I’m not putting a particular timeframe on I’m saying like, we appreciate you coming and we appreciate the concerns that you pointed out about the building. We are conscious, Peter is conscious of this.
Maggie
Okay, I’m not gonna mention the criminals involved in this. What then? How then can we ask why the administrator of the building, which was appointed by this department, I don’t know, quango, whatever. Why did he not do his job? He promised leases to the tenants. Now if that place had been leased out, it would have provided him with his wage, it certainly would have costed into this department or quango, or however you call yourself, it would have provided Ross with a living and he wouldn’t have to go on the pension. And it would have kept Challenger off our backs, off Ross (Taylor)’s back, because, at least, until some legal matter was dealt with (that) you can’t discuss. At least the interest (on the loan) would have been paid to Challenger. And we would not be at the point now that Ross is going to be if this sale goes through is going to be left absolutely destitute. So who do we complain to about that? The administrator who did not do his job, all the tenants left, because they did not get the leases that that man promised. His name was Daniel Moore, I believe.
Bernie Neville
Brian Ferrier …
Ian Curr
Have you finished? I want to say something.
Maggie
Yeah I’ve finished.
Bernie Neville
Just I want to make one point… I want to make one point.
Mark Crofton
Okay. I don’t I’m not. I don’t say that out of any delight or concern. But it just happens if both of those things are just true. We don’t want to waive privilege on them … because there are serious issues that are for which advice are being sought.
Maggie
So what can we do about the administrator?
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
Well, you can bring an application to QCAT.
Maggie
We have already.
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
You have the right to go to QCAT and ask QCAT to review the actions of the public trustee … that’s what QCAT is there for … I urge you to do that … QCAT will have to, if you bring an application, will have to consider that application. So if you have concerns about the actions of the public trustee, QCAT is an organization that’s there to review and oversight the actions of the public trustee. You simply need to bring an application before QCAT for that purpose.
Bernie Neville
That was done by me
Ian Campbell
You brought it you brought an application to review it, I provided a response to QCATc
Bernie Neville
That’s right.
Ian Campbell
I’ve told them that we’re getting information … an opinion from counsel.
Maggie
I’m not talking about Laver and Marcus. I talking about your administrator
Ian Campbell
sorry.
Bernie Neville
It is important that I interrupt here … you (Peter Carne) asked me to take a certain action or we to take a certain action with QCAT. I took that I saw your letter, I’ve got your home on file. Right. But QCAT informed me that no, it wasn’t going to happen … to sit around and talk about this problem, as we’re talking about it now. That’s what QCAT told me. I made the correct application. I did everything by the book. And I was refused to sit down and talk about the matter like we’re doing now. But going past all that the most important issue in how we want Challenger, we want the Challenger Bank to hold the sale of that building until this matter is decided. Now when I sat down with you (Ian Campbell) last year, and you were saying … we would have the answer in January, and then you changed it to the first week of Februrary. But one of the issues there was, correct me if I’m wrong, the water tank, the $50,000 water tank. That was a way of getting Marcus, because Marcus came in here with a shirt and tie on, and all dressed up, and he’s the biggest con man you’ve ever seen in Brisbane … but but he took $5,000 out of that $50,000 that he wasn’t entitled to. Now taken its taken all that time for me to approach Tony Burke’s office, the Environment Minister’s people, and I got a reply yesterday, they’re going to take action. You did not tell me that in February of this year (2011), you decided nothing else was going to do about it with the federal police after speaking with the Federal Police, nothing was going to be done about it. They’re just going to open the case again now. Now this is a pressure that’s been brought through the state attorney general’s office, Mark Craven, right. Now he got onto it, but this is what I’m saying we’ve been so frustrated. Why was Will Marcus not made to vacate that building in 2009. I told you again, it did not have any claim on that building. John George (financial advisor) would tell you on that building, Barry Sims (financial advisor) would tell you the same. And that is why he contacted you people. Now that rents been wasting since 2009, 2010, 2011. He’s has been sat there as a squatter. Now, what I’m going to do? That would have paid Challenger Bank.
Ian Campbell
Can I address the water tank issue … that’s a matter that the Federal Department of I think its the Environment department, they were inquiring in relation to that. They sent me a letter and asked me about it. I gave them all the details in relation to it. I spoke to a lawyer appointed by them and gave them the details
Bernie Neville
Sellenic ..
Ian Campbell
and said you want anything that you know of … I will provide further information that I had in relation to it. It was an issue as far as I’m concerned that they’re been dealing with they’re thoroughly investigating. I haven’t heard back from him since I provided them with the information. He will tell you that I’ve given him all I had and an offer to provide them with anything further All right.
Ian Curr
Also I’d like to say something. Westpac Bank sent to Ian (Campbell) you some files and I have an analysis of the transactions that we have been talking about, transactions that relate to the loan agreement that Ross was suborned into signing by Marcus and Laver. Now those files were sent to you. I think in April of this year.
Ian Campbell
That’s right.
Ian Curr
…. you have been talking about incidents that are criminal in nature … but i would like to talk about the accounting side of it.
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
Certainly.
Ian Curr
(baby sounds) Those files demonstrate some highly irregular accounting behavior by the parties to the transactions and specifically to the loan documents. What I am talking about here is the loan with Challenger management of $1.3 million. In order for that loan to go ahead the Challenger principal, by the name of Ron Dunbar, instructed that not only should not the power of attorney (Laver) sign the document, but not to accept the signing by Ross Taylor because his lack of capacity. So, they were clearly briefed about the real ethical and legal difficulties that they had … Geoff Rigby signed that document of legal capacity. But that doesn’t excuse the bank from its unconscionable behavior and of course, you’re familiar with this now … I can’t grasp, regardless of all the criminal behavior that Bernie and Maggie are talking about … I simply can’t grasp how you as the administrator could sit by and allow the bank, firstly, to go to the Supreme Court of Queensland and have the caveat on that property removed, and allow for them to be in the Supreme Court, where they clearly were not furnished with the information that you have. That is, it was not the role of the bank to forgive the $168,032 that Will Marcus obtained (via a cheque signed under duress) , it was not their role to give that settlement. Because it was not their money to forgive, it was always Ross’s money… the ($168K) transaction had gone in exactly the wrong direction. If Marcus was claiming one sixth share in the property it was he who should pay the $168,032 plus, actually, because the valuation was not correctly done. It was actually he (Marcus) who should pay … and so it was you who sat by and watched the bank, clear the decks in order to, having already made a transaction which was unconscionable, you then allowed them to give (inaudible) and put it into the hands of the receiver, and then have it sold. So I think … you’re advising us about privilege …
Mark Crofton
(Interrupts) No I’m relating to the advice that I’m giving my client …
Ian Curr
Sorry, you are try to tell us about that damages come to you because you have to allowed this over a period of and reviewed over two and a half years and had sufficient documents to make a very strong case against the bank for unconscionable behaviour.
Mark Crofton
That goes to precisely the legal advice that I spoke off that we can’t discuss.
Ian Curr
Well, it’s a bit late isn’t it for you to go to the bank, if this is what you’re saying, for unconscionable behavior, when there’s already another party now that has equitable interest in the property, ok settlement date was supposed to be the 15th …. But you’ve allowed that to actually get go into train and so you brought in another party …
Mark Crofton
We haven’t bought in another party …
Ian Curr
Yes you have, by your neglect!
Maggie
Also, also, the behavior of some of the staff has also been highly inappropriate. I mean, this Sally Dreghorn rings up Bernie and says when the last tenant leaves, ‘oh Ross really won’t mind, will he, if we give Mark Pelmore the shelves. And Bernie said yes, Ross will mind has been ripped off $8,500, he will mind, he’s got nothing bloody left and they cost him $8,500. So, Ross comes in early next morning, you know, we bring up the next morning, we go down to the buildings and say to Mark, look, sorry, we’ve got nothing to do, we’re really screwed like every other tenant in this building by the ex-CEO (Laver) of the building. And however, they did $8,500 and the shelves have already all been removed. Now why would she be ringing up if they belong to him? It’s not bits of furniture that can be taken and stolen. We’re talking about (inaudible). And apparently, it’s not that people didn’t know, why would be Sally Dreghorn be ringing and saying, oh, but you know, Ross really won’t
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
Thank you very much … I understand your issues, and discuss these matters with my team. And we’ll take appropriate action. Any issues you have in regard to public trustee, I urge you to go to QCAT.
Maggie
We’ve done that
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
Well do …
Ross Taylor
I have already done that. I want an answer to my question now. I would go back just waitwork and go back t
Ross Taylor
We’re paying your your wages, Mate.
Ross Taylor
We’ve listened to you. We’ve listened. We’ve listened. We’ve listened to you without interruption. Right. So let’s do the same. Just do the same.
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
Where do you want to take this … I just have. Yes, I out of courtesy I’ve met with you. I just need to have an understanding … how do you want? Where do You want to take this today?
Bernie Neville
I’ll tell you … we want the long, winding back with Challenger Bank to the 17th of March 2007. We want to stop the sale of this building. This building was given to the West End community through the generosity of this man and it’s been stolen from the West End community.
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
Don’t speak and say I’m smirking … I wasn’t smirking, Madam.
Maggie
Sorry.
Bernie Neville
You’ve just heard what I said … what is your response to that?
Mark Crofton
Well, I am the public trustee’s lawyer and the public trustee this morning I will be giving advice …
Bernie Neville
On the sale of the building …
Mark Crofton
On that and other matters …
Bernie Neville
to stop the sale of the building.
Ian Curr
Exactly. Exactly. You have got it around the wrong way … it is he you need to be talking to …
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
We have discussed it
Ian Curr
… you’re not, you’re fobbing us off, you say you got to go away and talk about it in private, and it should be discussed now!
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
… we have discussed them.
Ian Curr
You haven’t discussed them. You haven’t told us what you got to do. You’ve actually said you’re not gonna actually talk about anything …
Mark Crofton
I’ve explained to you constraints upon the public trustee and they are not … they are genuine, they are real … it is a matter for the Public Trustee what he wants to do with that advice.
Bernie Neville
Okay, then, we have just one final thing and we willl not trouble you any more. I will go down with with Mr. Carl Ross Taylor …
Bernie Neville
and occupy the building. Now are you going to bring the police in to remove me?
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
Yes,
Bernie Neville
You are.
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
Yes.
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
I have listened to you and I now have to get advice. And I have to act on that advice. That’s all I can do. You have recourse, if you have any complaints or issues in regard to the conduct of public trustee, you do have recourse … and I do urge you to that that up … this sort of conduct doesn’t us anywhere. How would you feel if I walked into your house and sat down and said I’m not leaving,
Bernie Neville
But this is not your house
Ian Curr
What action are you going to take about the unconscionable behavior of the bank?
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
I’ve done … I’ve got legal advice coming from the barristers …
two and a half years after that unconscionable behaviour getting legal advice.
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
Yes
Ian Curr
Two and a half years after getting legal advice
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
I will make an urgent application to QCAT … and, if any other person wants to be the administrator for for Ross, they can be …
Maggie
I would like to know …… now that you’re building sold … one of the questions is he gets a phone call the other morning he (Ian Campbell) rings us when he’s (Ross) very distressed and doesn’t understand anything saying stop carrying on about the building … the buildings been sold
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
Interrupts
Maggie
Don’t worry about them now just a real estate agents bullying and we’ll get onto them. But why just someone from this department ring him and say ‘stop carrying on you building has been sold.
Ian Curr
Did I hear you correctly … did you just offer to resign from being the administrator …
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
… if it is … you want to bring an application for the QCAT to consider the activities of the public administrator, of the Public Trustee. And, if one of you … if another person wants to take up the role as administrator, and QCAT believes that that person is appropriate, then the QCAT will appoint that other person. That’s what’s available.
Ian Curr
Two and a half years after you’ve sat up your hands. Why did you let them (the bank) go to the Supreme Court declared the last impediment to the sale.
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
We haven’t sate on our hands … this will play out,
Ian Curr
You have not informed us of a single thing that you’ve done. What have you done …
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
… I’ve got legal advice, and I will be acting on that legal advice.
Ross Taylor
What is the legal advice?
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
I can’t discuss the legal advice with you unfortunately properties.
Ross Taylor
I own the building.
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
I can’t discuss the legal advice with you unfortunately, because as as Mark (Crofton) has said, I will waive privilege if I do that.
Bernie Neville
So we go down to AHISA house now and occupy that building ..
Ian Curr
The only privilege in this room between you and your client. This is rubbish. What you just said, if you’re if you’re serious, you’re telling me that there’s privilege about us talking about the unconscionable behavior and transaction that occur in 2009. And the subsequent actions relating to that, how do you how do you get advice? How do you formulate a legal case unless you listen to and, and interact with the people that are giving you that advice they provided you with enormous amount of information, you’re talking about … courtesy? You haven’t shown them any courtesy you haven’t responded to the information that they’ve given you. You just said … you can’t say that.
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
Unfortunately that is the law … and we’ve acted on the
Look, I get this all the time people say … lawyers get up and say this is the law, this is the way it is. And then you go to the you know, in a recent case, in the Boonah Shire Council, every single lawyer swore on a stack of bibles that there was no way that they that the Australian Workers Union would ever get a case challenging the amalgamation of that Shire, no way that we’re ever going to get it and went to the court and they got it. So you know, don’t tell me what the law is if if all you got is just one person’s opinion
Mark Crofton
I should make it clear. I’m not advising you. I shared with you advices I given the public trustee. I’m not your lawyer. So therefore, please don’t mistake what I said as advices to you. I owe no duty to you, sir. I am the trustee’s lawyer and the public trustee will accept my advice, will get other advice.
Ian Curr
and the public trustee owes a duty to his client first …
Mark Crofton
… no question. That I agree with.
Maggie
we don’t believe that’s been done.
Mark Crofton
We understand that that’s the advice that that’s the message …
Ian Curr
… and we’re trying to get the heart of the matter … where, where everything went wrong. And that was when the bank led $1.3 million when it was clear that there was a difficulty in paying off a $600,000 loan.
Bernie Neville
Did you ever interview Mr. Barry Sims? I’ll give … I’ll give it a conversation now with him … this is very important this conversation with Barry Sims in 2009. Now, I didn’t solicit this information, but we was talking about what had gone on down at AHIMSA house with Brian Laver. Finally, he ate down and said to me when Ross Taylor’s last property was sold at Cooper’s Plains that, his wife when he went home and told her that night, broke down in tears and cried. So I phoned Barry Sims about four weeks ago and I wanted some information as to how he managed to get these (inaudible) figures as Challenger with John George, … now, Barry Sims came back and he said to me, ‘I will send you a letter’. So I phoned him when the letter never came. So I said you promised me some information, he said ‘Oh, after speaking to my lawyers, and I’m not willing to send it now. So I said, ‘Well, you might just answer me one question then. When we were sat down at Glory Jeans (coffee shop) in the West End in 2009, June 2009, you gave me some information I didn’t solicit. You told me that your wife broke down and cried I said ‘why would she do that if everything was above board’? He said ‘I’ll send you a letter and the letter was that it was not in a fit state to raise that loan. Now there was Barry Sims … ‘why didn’t you speak to him when I gave you the information about this person, Barry Sims? That should have been a person that should have been interviewed. But he wasn’t.
Ian Campbell
I’ll take it up.
Bernie Neville
Okay, the other thing is has that building been sold now … okay then, you’re (to Ross) you’re still the owner, we will go and occupy it.
Public Trustee (Peter Carne)
Thank you very much and I get on this matter urgently, I appreciate your coming and raising these matters with me ….
Maggie
we have tried every other option in nearly three years.
Ian Curr
Thank you I appreciate your time …
Bernie Neville
Do you want me to help carry your baggage now you’re (inaudible).
Mark Crofton
… (in the lift) by the way, I’m the official solicitor … I don’t get paid more or less depending on whether actions are taken or not. We … I take my job very seriously. And I am taking this very seriously … it’s a very difficult manner it’s one of the most complex and concerning matters I’ve seen in my career and I’m old … I personally ran the Banh Case so I’m personally looking at these tests genuinely I’m a property law specialist by trade some things you can make right and some things you can’t … I will I’ll certainly approach it with the kind of endeavor that you would want us to now you can accept that assurance or not you don’t know me but I don’t think it’s a bad thing that you came and I appreciate your time and I cannot just offer somebody a card, its got a mobile phone …
Mark Crofton
I know this is a tough one because of what happened before but the people do horrible things and
Ross Taylor
.. what’s gonna happen to Brian Laver
Mark Crofton
I don’t know some I do a lot of these things and it’s a difficult one because of what happened