Senator Scott Ryan (Victoria) was sponsored by the Australia/Israel Jewish Affairs council on a paid business class trip to Israel in August 2009.
In his speech to the federal parliament yesterday Scott Ryan returned the AIJA favour by attacking the TIME TO HOLD ISRAEL ACCOUNTABLE ads placed in national newspapers by Australians for Palestine.
Middle East
Tuesday, 15 June 2010 SENATE 103
Senator RYAN (Victoria) (7.53 pm) Several weeks ago we were informed that Israel had allegedly outrageously intervened to stop a so-called peace flotilla, with commandos launching themselves at a peaceful armada seeking nothing more than to take humanitarian aid to Gaza.
Excuse me if I was a little cynical when I first heard the news, for despite days of a highly orchestrated media campaign to vilify Israel and her defence forces, the truth subsequently came out.
These were not peace activists; they were agents of provocation, radicals seeking a violent confrontation as they broke the legal maritime blockade of Gaza.
I did not realise that peace activists were so well armed, in this case, with knives, chains, firearms, molotov cocktails and pepper spray.
By viciously attacking the soldiers, they quickly betrayed their true agenda with their anti-Semitic cries, as they did by their refusal to cooperate with the UN, Israeli or Egyptian authorities, who could have facilitated the entry of the humanitarian materials to Gaza.
This was no peace flotilla; it was part of an orchestrated campaign to vilify the state of Israel for doing nothing more than would be expected of us in this place: to protect her own citizens.
…So what was the real agenda of this alleged peace flotilla?
It was part of the campaign to delegitimise Israel in the West.
It was intentionally aimed at weakening the historic friendship between many nations of the West and the only liberal democratic state in the Middle East.
Over the past decade, a campaign of vili- fication against Israel has been undertaken by elements of the left in the West. Using NGOs, an occasionally ignorant media and a lack of understanding in the West of the existential threat faced by Israel, they have joined with other groups, including violent Islamic groups in the Middle East who seek to destroy Israel.
The incidence of academic boycotts and the use of terms such as apartheid are all an attempt to achieve through factual manipulation what the enemies of Is- rael have not been able to achieve through other means.
It could not be achieved by three wars and it could not be achieved by an unprecedented terror campaign against civilians, so now these organisations seek to weaken Israel by demonising and delegitimising it, weakening its alliance with other nations to diplomatically cripple and hopefully destroy it.
This was merely the latest media stunt in that campaign.
A group called ‘Australians for Palestine’ has been running a campaign entitled Time to hold Israel Accountable.
Israel is accountable to its people via elections, courts and the rule of law, while Hamas, the Palestinian Authority and Israels other neighbours are not. Israel has a right to protect itself, and the campaign to undermine this must be opposed.
More importantly, it must be exposed.
The lies and misrepresentation of facts and the application of double standards in considering Israels legitimate right of self-defence cannot go unanswered.
Contrast the Senator’s account of what happened aboard the ‘Mavi Mamara’ with that of one of the peace activists, Ken O’Keefe, who was aboard the ship when it was attacked in international waters by Israeli commandos:
“While in Israeli custody I, along with everyone else was subjected to endless abuse and flagrant acts of disrespect.
Women and elderly were physically and mentally assaulted. Access to food and water and toilets was denied.
Dogs were used against us, we ourselves were treated like dogs. We were exposed to direct sun in stress positions while hand cuffed to the point of losing circulation of blood in our hands.
We were lied to incessantly, in fact I am awed at the routineness and comfort in their ability to lie, it is remarkable really.
We were abused in just about every way imaginable and I myself was beaten and choked to the point of blacking out and I was beaten again while in my cell.
In all this what I saw more than anything else were cowards and yet I also see my brothers.
Because no matter how vile and wrong the Israeli agents and government are, they are still my brothers and sisters and for now I only have pity for them.
Because they are relinquishing the most precious thing a human being has, their humanity.”
Ian Curr
June 2010
Hi all,
There will be a Justice for Palestine meeting this Wednesday, July 14 at 6:30pm in the TLC Building (2nd floor), 16 Peel St, South Brisbane.
A reminder that the meetings are held on the 2nd and 4th Wednesdays of the month.
in solidarity,
Kathy
Several of the victims of the Israeli raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla were shot in the head from above, presumably from a helicopter, according to the forensics report released Monday by a human rights group.
Some of the bodies were found to have wounds consistent with a bullet entering through the head from a high angle, the report said, adding that automatic or semi-automatic weapons were likely used to kill the nine people who died onboard the Mavi Marmara.
Read Full Report
I’ve just spent the past week at the EDO Decommissioners trial in Brighton/England. It was a privilege to accompany these good people, and their support, to trial. The 8 defendants were arrested during the January ’09 Israeli bombing of Gaza following their nonviolent disarmament of EDO offices in Brighton. EDO produces components for the Israeli F 16’s that were wreaking extensive damage, and claiming hundreds of lives, in Gaza at the time.
As reported previously, 5 of the defendants were acquitted by the jury last Wedmesday afternoon June 30 during the fourth week of the trial. On Friday morning July 2nd. the Judge directed the jury to acquit the two remaining defendants.
For a more detailed report of the trial, video footage and still photos go to the Schnews link below………
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/07/454845.html
Some other still photography from the trial
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/07/454877.html
EDO Decommissoners Trial Blog
http://decommissioners.co.uk/blog/
Jury clears activists who broke into Brighton arms factory
Thank goodness this propaganda merchant is out of breath. Anyone with an internet connection can go online and find out the truth or falsity of each item in this barrage of unsupported verbal diarrhea.
The Arab Peace Plan offers to normalize relations between Israel and the whole Arab world in exchange for complete withdrawal from the Palestinian territories Israel occupied in 1967. Hamas offers a long-term ceasefire with Israel if it withdraws from these territories. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinian civilians are held in Israeli jails without charge and without trial – that is “kidnapping”! Even children suffer arrest and torture! Gilad Shalit is a soldier who was captured while his unit was attacking Gaza – one does not “kidnap” a soldier of an attacking army! Israeli commandos shot and killed passengers of the Mavi Marmara before they managed to overcome some of their attackers. Medics from IHH treated the wounds of Israeli soldiers who had come to murder them. The passengers were taken against their will to Israel – that is “kidnapping”! Attacking a vessel in international waters is an illegal act.
Ian, you are putting words in my mouth and I don’t appreciate it. My opinions are as is and have remained that way through this entire discussion.
I do not think all pro-Palestinians are anti-Zionist. I do not think that all anti-Zionists are Hamas or Hezbollah. I have said that Hamas do not care for Palestinians who hold a different view to their own. They will kill, maim and publicly humiliate anyone with an opposing perspective. This is not for the benefit of the Palestinian people. Also, Hamas were elected before they made their radicalised charter against “Jews”. No, not Zionism, Jews. They do not represent the majority opinion of the Palestinian people and they are slowing the peace process which is resulting in more casualties on both sides and it is also responsible for the humanitarian crisis. To say that Hamas gives all of the goods to people living in Gaza is absolute crap. This has been proven. Look it up.
I also never claimed that Hamas organised the flotilla. Anyone who claims that is spouting crap. However, Hamas-tied organisations such as the IHH did. Another point to note is that those IHH members of radical islamic orientation attacked the Israeli commandos. The violence that the Israelis met on the Mavi Marmara clearly highlighted the need for Israel to board to ship. Either that or Israel could simply allow terrorist supporters to enter the Hamas-run Gaza strip, potentially with weaponry on board, and who would fight to kill Israeli civilians.
Had these activists (and I am only talking about the violent passengers) not attacked the Israeli commandos and boarded peacefully in Ashdod as the other 5 boats did without incident, then there would have been no deaths or injuries. As soon as your opinions are challenged, you attack Israel’s actions as racist and disproportionate and, by spreading anti-Zionist propaganda, that simply shows how subjective you are.
Just something you should probably think about is that Israel (which you incorrectly claim as apartheid – especially in this context) withdrew from Gaza to be later met by rockets targeted at Israeli civilians from the victors of a violent civil war (by civil war I am referring to Hamas cleansing the region of opposition).
You claim yourself to be objective. However, it is evident to any individual who reads your comments that you truly are not. You say that “they [the activists] were attacked, shot, murdered, kidnapped, had all their possessions stolen”. They were “attacked”, “shot” and “murdered” by Israeli commandos who were being stabbed, lynched and caned and had flash grenades thrown at them. They were apparently “kidnapped” according to your description but then you go on to say that they were “deported to other countries” which clearly signifies your hypocrisy. Is this kidnapping like that of Gilad Shalit who has been held in unknown conditions, with an unknown health in an unknown location and red cross has been denied access to see him. You fail to mention this and this despicable. No, it’s called detaining suspects and deporting them. That is international practice by any democracy. Hamas clearly does not do that. Hamas even denies releasing one soldier in a trade for 500 Hamas militants which have been placed in trial and convicted of attacking Israeli civilians (not only Israeli soldiers).
Also, their possessions were returned to them. How else were those photos released in the Turkish media? Cropped to hide daggers and blood I might add.
Now, Ian, do your research and get your facts straight. It would be more beneficial to you and all of your readers if you were more open minded rather that accuse Israel of war crimes, say that Australian ministers of spreading lies (even though our federal government unfortunately expelled an Israeli diplomat) and claim Hamas to be non-corrupt and fair for the Palestinian people.
I take great offense to your accusations against me which have been fueled by ignorance and supported by anti-Zionist propaganda slogans.
Because of this, I will no longer respond to your reply posts and I have no interest in your credibility. I advise all others to follow my action, regardless of your response. People should read information from observers who write representations of either side of the conflict but who back up their arguments with facts.
Unlike yourself.
Article Thirteen:
Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and
international conferences, are in contradiction to the
principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
– Hamas Covenant 1988
from the HAMAS COVENANT:1988
(HAMAS means ISLAMIC RESISTANCE MOVEMENT)
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it” (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
Article Six:
“The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine…”
The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz al-Din al Kissam and his brethren the fighters, members of Moslem Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Moslem Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Moslem Brotherhood in 1968 and after.
Article Eight:
Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.
Article Eleven:
The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?
This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement.
Article Twelve:
Nationalism, from the point of view of the Islamic Resistance Movement, is part of the religious creed. Nothing in nationalism is more significant or deeper than in the case when an enemy should tread Moslem land. Resisting and quelling the enemy become the individual duty of every Moslem, male or female. A woman can go out to fight the enemy without her husband’s permission, and so does the slave: without his master’s permission.
Nothing of the sort is to be found in any other regime. This is an undisputed fact…
Article Thirteen:
Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement
If our wishes are not granted we shall drag you into a sea of fire and blood. We shall be at war with you, hitting you everywhere. Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani
As Islamists, we seek to revive the Islamic inclination by all means possible. Sheikh Sayyid Muhammad Husayn Fadlallah, Spiritual Leader of HizbAllah
The world as it is today is how others have shaped it. We have two choices: either to accept it with submission, which means letting Islam die, or to destroy it, so that we can construct it as Islam requires. Ayatollah Muhammad Baqir al-Sadr
Terror struck into the heart of the enemies is not only a means, it is the end in itself. Once a condition of terror in the opponent’s heart is obtained hardly anything it left to be achieved. It is the point where the means and the end meet and merge. Terror is not a means of imposing
decision upon the enemy; it is the decision we wish to impose on him. Pakistani Army Brigadier General Malik, The Quranic Concept of War
When we are in power, there will be no more elections because God will be ruling.
Ali Belhadj, leader of Algeria’s Islamic Salvation Front
Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth…” Omar Ahmad, Council on American Islamic Relations
Harry, the reason that the people of Gaza elected Hamas was because they provided food, clothing and medical aid to Palestinians.
The other reason was that Hamas was not corrupt like the American backed Palestinian Authority.
Hamas continues to look after Palestinians in Gaza and on the West Bank. These are facts that Palestinians on the ground will tell you. But Hamas is only part of the resistance, in one sense it is a creation of Israel. Israel needed Hamas when Yasser Arafat was effective so that Israel could undermine Fatah.
It is a lie to say otherwise.
The Palestinian people have a right to resist Israeli apartheid.
They have a right to resist the murderous assaults on them.
The flotilla was bringing aid that the people of Gaza sorely needed. Much of that aid was building materials like cement.
It is an Israeli lie to say that Hamas organised or were behind the flotilla.
There were aid organisations from 32 different countries who brought the ships containing 10,000 tonnes of aid through international waters where they were attacked, shot, murdered, kidnapped, had all their possessions stolen, including cameras and recording devices that would show the truth of what happened, credit cards were stolen and are currently being used in Israel while their owners have been deported to other countries.
Now on the eve of another aid mission, this time by Lebanese women, many of whom are Christians the Israeli lie machine is saying that Hezbollah is behind this humanitarian effort. Their ship ‘Julia’ is to set sail from Tripoli to Cyprus and then on to Gaza in a matter of hours.
Harry, everything you say begins with the premise that all those people who question Zionism and the racist apartheid it represents are terrorists. You are so blind you cannot see the truth. We do not need to be Hamas or Hezbollah to support the Palestinian people, but the fact is you accuse us of being in league with them as soon as we are effective in breaking the siege of Gaza. Why? Because Israeli military have defeated all the armies of the region but have not, nor will not ever defeat Palestinian resistance — call me Hamas, call me Hezbollah, I do not care; they are only one reason why a settler state based on race will never work.
No amount of Israeli guns, sophisticated missiles, nuclear capability can overcome Palestinian resistance. Israel has expropriated Arab land, olive groves, Arab culture and food to build their apartheid state. They have forgotten that Jew and Arab are cousins. Israel will never overcome the human reality that Jews have more in common with Arabs than differences, it is not about race nor is it about religion. We live in a world where capitalist ideology supports colonialism, American imperialism wants Israel so that it can control the wealth of the region but that too will crumble in the face of resistance by ordinary people, workers who reject exploitation and enslavement by the rich and powerful.
Ian Curr
June 2010
Of course, there was a joke email which a politician sent (by accident) to multiple people. It was supposed to be in response to critics saying that their is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. This comment should be disregarded. Obviously life is very hard on those living in Gaza, however, that is mainly as a result of Hamas. Did you know that Hamas destroyed almost everything that Israel left from withdrawal when they took power? This not only included Churches and Synagogues but even Israeli greenhouses and farms which were used for agriculture. Destroying the agriculture is hardly a way to supply nourishment to their people – if they care about them.
Like I said before, even Hamas officials have said that they already have enough food and the food isn’t needed. There is of course a great deal of need for construction materials needed for rebuilding homes. However, keep in mind that when Hamas takes these materials they use it for underground bunkers and smuggling routes. They do NOT give it to the people of Gaza.
My point is that humanitarian aid does not go to Palestinians except for the food which there is already enough of. The humanitarian crisis is not because of Israel but is because Hamas, attacks Israel, keeps Israeli soldiers in unknown conditions, caused the blockade and misuses the humanitarian aid that is passed through. Once you take this into account, the flotillas were not entirely trying to bring aid to Palestinians because they all knew that aid could be let through the Israeli ports (informed time and time again and could have been done under their own supervision). The flotillas were indeed attempting to make a political stand against Israel which, as Senator Scott Ryan says, is aiming to vilify Israel.
In my opinion, attacking the enemy is not a way to achieve peace. Israel tried to stop the boats that were potentially giving weapons (or materials that could be used to make weapons) to anti-Western, anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist murders.
My argument is that the world should stop condemning Israel when Israel is not to blame and rather condemn Hamas who has caused all of this. Hamas would be weakened if the international community held to the high standards that they hold Israel.
Israeli Organization Places Ad for Volunteers to Attack Mariam Aid Ship Going to Gaza
Thank you Harry for your information. I must admit that most of my previous post was aimed at jill, But I and most people I assume, like to know with whom we are conversing. You raise a lot of good points, but we should add to the list perhaps,
Israeli govt statments that the gaza blockade has nothing to do with Hamas and is for the express purpose of ‘ putting them( the gazans) on a diet.(look it up)
The continuous lies told by the current regime.
Etc, Etc. But the purpose of this post by Ian was in regards to another australian MP lying in parliament.
It is now almost the national sport. Do any of our MP’s who belong to political parties tell the truth anymore? I dont think so.
I believe it is a truism that the kind of people who run for parliament are not the kind of people who should be there.
Pete
My name is Harry Goldberg, I live in Sydney. What more do you want to know?
I have never shouted “antisemitism” and never called you “anti-Jewish”. I do not support everything that Israel’s right-wing government does. For example, I disagree with Israeli settlements existing on the West Bank. And that is because I have looked at the facts and the information available objectively.
However, the topic of this post was about the flotilla incident in which Israel is not in the wrong from a legal, humanitarian or military standpoint. If you would like to debate other topics then post them. If you wish to talk about other issues then may I please suggest that you also talk about the humanitarian crisis from an objective perspective. For example:
– The oppression, killing, and public caning and maiming of Palestinians by Hamas.
– How Hamas left the aid to rot in Ashdod.
– How Hamas officials have said that “We don’t need to fill our bellies” because they don’t need the food
– Hamas killing innocent Israeli civilians
– Hamas killing innocent Palestinian civilians
– Hamas stopping freedom of speech, banning drinking, forcing certain very harsh dress standards, indoctrinating children into hate and not allowing women to dance (even at their own wedding!).
Talk about those if you wish to be objective.
With reference to this blog (about the Israeli government stopping the flotilla), federal parliament is NOT spreading lies. He is actually telling the truth from an unbiased perspective. Also, if you think back to Operation Cast Lead, the federal government members far from supported Israel’s actions.
Jill you are a cretin. Do you use logic at all? I dont see how. I do not hide behind anonamous postings. My name is Peter so P Daws becomes my name. who are you and harry?
I repeat you are shills.
By the way harry, if you did the research you said you did, you should have looked at either common dreams or global research, they might gain some balance.
And as for the LEGALITY of the situation, why not have a look at how many UN resolutions Isreal is in violation of.
Including a number about Gaza and the humanitarian crisis there.
Jill, say here whatever you like. I know who you are. You are a coward who hides like so many on line. Let us know who you are. Who you work for or some information about yourself. If not, I will no longer reply because as I said you must be somehow ashamed of who you are. Is that why you hide? I love your sweeping generalizations, they are full of it. Thats enough time to a fool.
I am not and never have been anti-jewish and I am getting very tired of those who support the current right-wing Israeli government calling anyone who disagrees with them anti- Jewis, anti-semetic, or anti Zionist. I am anti bad government. Something that most people should be, but so few actually are.
Pete
Oh – in answer to your question about whether you’ve though long and hard:
No, Ian – you don’t give me the impression that you know how to think at all.
Ian,
you called me on my error about what you said and I acknowledged it.
i am not anonymous, and your concern with “humanity” is concern for a bunch of guys who wanted to die in the cause of jihad and did so – in a fight.
It is quite clear you simply cannot deal with the events of what happebned on the flotilla – you pretend to by publishing on the matter but it is clear that you can’t deal with the facts when the information deviates from what you want to believe.
Humanity indeed – do you gove a stuff about israeli civilaians and little kids being terrorised by hamas rockets and Arab violence? of course not. Do you care abotu Palestinina Chrisitians being forced out of bethlehem and killed? No. Do you care abotu the humanity of palestininas in gaza being killed and tortured by Hamas islamists? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, it’s only when Israelis dare to defend themselves against Turks – who still oppress the Kurds and occupy Northern Cyprus – that you “care”.
Well, if you CARE so much then have the courtesy to read what has been posted on YOUR blog.
All the info is here and there are links for you to follow.
But you’re not interested in what happened because you DON”T CARE that K.O Keefe is a Hamas liar, and you’ll take that over any amount of evidence presented to you.
I don’t know what you are , but you certainly can’t cope with facts, ideas or anything but sympathy for terrorists. Either that or you’re simply not very bright.
“Racist executions”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This confirms it – despite the HISTORIES of these guys on the Web (memri.org) and on Turkish media, you have deliberately stuck with PC tropes that ensure you will never understand what happened because you are living in another world.
If you’re not a lawyer then you can’t say the Israelis acted illegally, which you have implied. if you can’t read or understand Harry”s legal posts – the content of which no one on any other blog I’ve visited has had trouble with AT ALL, then you shoud not be posting on this matter at all.
By the way, the names Jill and Harry are no more t\anonymous than “chrissy” and “P Daws”, so this is just more nonsense you’re posting.
This is what happens when you jump on a bandwagon of anti israel writing. I dont’ care what you say about this – you haven’t paid attention to anything posted here, so you clearly don’t care, therefore you ahve an agenda.
By the way, I personally posted here because i care about this issue. If you don’t want comments on this issue, then don’t post on it.
It’s plain you don’t like being contradicted with actual evidence – too much out of the old comfort zone I suppose – so post on things you’re copmfortable, you know, like how great The Workers revolution will be, that sort of thing.
When you’re living under Sharia in Australia in about twenty years, i hope you have a great time.
“Hello Uncle Erwin,
This is Amir writing you after reading what you sent to my father, Eitan.
As you know, it was my unit and my friends who were on the ship. My commander was injured badly as a result of the “pacifists” violence. I want to tell you how he was injured so you could tell the story. it shows just how
horrible and inhuman were the activists. My commander was the first
soldier that rappelled down from the helicopter to the ship. When he touched
ground, he got hit in the head with a pole and stabbed in the stomach with a
knife.
When he drew out his secondary weapon-a handgun (his primary weapon was a regular paintball gun: “Tippman 98 custom”) he was shot in the leg. He
managed to fire a single shot before he was tossed from the balcony by 4
Arab activists, to the lower deck (a 12 feet fall). He was then dragged by
other activists to a room in the lower deck were he was stripped down by 2
activists. They took off his vest, helmet and shirt, leaving him with only
his pants and shoes on.
When they finished they took a knife and expanded the wound he already had in his stomach. They cut his ab muscles horizontally and by hand spilled his guts out. When they finished they raised him up and walked him on the deck outside. He was conscious the whole time.
If you are asking yourself why they did all that, here comes the reason. They wanted to show the soldiers their commander’s body so they will be demoralized and scared. Luckily, when they walked him on the deck a
soldier saw him and managed to shoot the activist that was walking him
down the outside corridor. He shot him with a special non-lethal bullet that
didn’t kill him. My commander managed to jump from the deck to the water
and swim to an army rescue boat (his guts still out of his body, and now in
salty sea water). That was how he was saved. The activists that did this
to him are alive, now in Turkey, and treated as heroes.
I’m sorry if I described this with too many details, but I thought it was
necessary for the credibility. Please tell this story to anyone who will
listen. I think that these days you are one of Israel’s best spokesman.
Thanks uncle Erwin, Shabbat shalom!
Amir”
Ian,
I have mentioned nothing about antisemitism. The way to explain this is not that it is a result of racism but rather, have you perhaps considered that those which were most aggressive and attacked the commandos were Turkish linked to the IHH? This would obviously mean that Israeli commandos were simply protecting themselves from those who were attacking them. Of course the IHH is not a terrorist group, they have done many commendable activities. However, supporting, financing and, even more so, supporting the throwing of stun grenades, pelting of stones, stabbing and caning of Israeli commandos clearly indicates some trait of jihad extremism.
I did not reach these conclusions by assuming this and then stating it as fact, I analysed all the information that I could find, especially videos on youtube. If you look closely at the preparations for the commando landings, the attacks on the commandos which boarded the ship and the attacks by the “peace” activists directed towards the Israeli boat on the side of the ship, then it becomes quite evident that Israelis were met with a lot of resistance (presumably more than expected given they boarded with paintball guns and not M16s) and that those who first attacked the soldiers were a part of Turkish decent.
Viewing videos of Israelis asking (and later warning) the boats to dock at Ashdod and pass their humanitarian aid through the appropriate methods (under international and activists’ supervision) highlights that giving the aid to Gaza was not their top priority. The fact that Hamas rejected the humanitarian aid because it was transported through Israel rather than from the boats is even worse. Where is the morality in that? Where is the morality in any action of Hamas and why has this not been brought to the spotlight?
More so, I have seen videos of activists who before the raid claimed that they wished to be shahids (martyrs). All people who claimed days before the raid that they will meet Israel with resistance and that they want to be shahids were of middle-eastern decent. Perhaps that is a point that you should take carefully into account.
Also, to say that out of the people that offered resistance, only the middle-eastern were killed is truly biased. Have you not thought that Israel did not want to kill anyone? Have you thought that Israel tried to avoid killing anyone at all? Also, most people who were attacking the soldiers wore masks. With masks on, it makes it difficult to tell the difference between middle-eastern and European no?
On the next comment I will attach a first-hand account of a member of the commando unit which was on the Mavi Marmara. His name is Amir but obviously his surname must be kept confidential for security reasons.
If you perhaps wrote articles about Hamas and their brutality, Saudi Arabian, Lybian and Syrian oppression of women, Turkish occupation of Cyprus or Turkish genocide of Armenians and the Kurds (of the top of my head), then your harsh criticism of “the mindless and brutal arrogance of the Israeli government and their supporters” will have more validity.
Harry
Hello Jill and Harry,
During the past couple of weeks you have made a total of 17 comments to this article “Federal parliament used as a forum for Israeli lies”.
Both of you have chosen to make these comments anonymously.
The central theme of your comment is that Israel was justified in killing the 9 people aboard the Mavi Mamara because they were terrorists. This theme was repeatedly put out by the Israeli Government spokesperson, Mark Regev, in the hours after the killings.
You have refused to accept those who challenge this account and you have both chosen to support Senator Ryan’s version — a Liberal Senator who made a paid visit to Israel to gather ‘facts’.
This discussion cannot go on endlessly — especially when neither of you appear open to critical inquiry. You have called into question my objectivity and misread and misquoted what I have written. Harry claims legality to be on the side of the Israeli commandos and challenges any other reading of international law. I am not a lawyer and am not qualified to say whether Harry has the law right or wrong. No doubt there will be many highly paid judges who will make pronouncements on the law in the days and years ahead.
If you read this website more thoroughly you would notice that both I and most of the contributors are more concerned with humanity than legality.
I have tried to point you toward some disturbing facts about the Israeli commando raid on the ship and the subsequent killings. However you continue your tirade hiding behind moralism and anonymity.
What we know is always limited. However we do know that unidentified Israeli commandos killed at least nine people aboard the Mavi Mamara. Here are photos of those killed by Israeli Commandos (three of whom spoke with Australian accents, according to the Australian journos aboard the ship).
What do you notice about the men who were killed? They are all non-European. Aboard a ship containing Irish people, Americans, English, Australians, Europeans, the Israeli commandos killed not a single European. Even though at least one, the Irish American Ken O’Keefe, said that he resisted their boarding the ship. They did not kill him, nor did they kill the Europeans aboard the other ships like the Rachael Corrie. While it is not possible to be absolutely sure, this indicates that the killings were targeted to people of ‘middle eastern descent’ i.e. they were racist executions. The last person shown in the photos is that of the nineteen year old boy, Furkan Dogan. He was shot four times in the head as he crawled along the deck seeking refuge from the assault. Of Turkish descent, he was an American citizen. Even the US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, a noted supporter of Israel, expressed her dismay at the unjustified and unjustifiable killing of this young man.
Now it is predictable what you will say in reply to this assertion. You have already implied that I am an anti-Semite or an ‘Israeli hater’. Down the years the Israel lobby has often resorted to these allegations, especially when there is no defence to the murderous acts of aggression like that in Gaza in 2008 on a defenceless people many of whom were children. I know the shrill cries; I have heard them all my adult life — ever since the six day war. I am a man of nearly sixty. My experiences are many. My older sister and my younger brother both lived in Israel on a kibbutz. So did my sister-in-law. My oldest friend from medical school is married to a Jewish doctor whose parents suffered under the Nazis in World War II.
Do you think I am unlikely to have thought long and hard about the plight of my Jewish friends in a world of hatred and despair?
Don’t you think that I might have considered what Israel’s actions have meant for their security in the past, in the present and in the future?
To you and Senator Ryan I ask this question.
Who represents the greatest threat to Jews and Arabs alike?
Is it not the mindless and brutal arrogance of the Israeli government and their supporters?
Ian Curr
June 2010
Reference: Eyewitness to the Israeli Assault on the Mavi Marmara
“Don’t you think the world is growing tired of the hypocrisy of the likes of Senator Ryan acting as a mouthpiece for organisations like the Australia/Israel Jewish Affairs council”
Sen Ryan is not a mouthpiece for anyone. he’s got a brain and is using it. He visited Israel to get cloers to seeing what’s going on there, unlike the rabid israel haters in the world who “research” everything about Israel from pro Palestinians sites.
I, and many like me, are growing very tired of the hypocrisy of people who flagrantly support Palestinian thugs and think they’re entitled to call themselves objective.
If you yoursefl don’t want to be dismissed as an Israel hater, (which lcearly Pete above is, judging from his language) then read about Israel itself, and dont’ conflate your support for Palis (if that’s what you do) with an attempt to be objective.
If, however, you are sincerely interested in What Actually Happened, then reading what Harry wrote up top and fol;lowing the links provided in his letters and in mine should at least give you some material to follow further.
here are some seach terms: IHH, Muslims Brotherhood, Free Gaza and ISM, free Gaza and Bill Ayres…etc.
Oh, and as Khaled abu Toamah, an Arab journalist said recently in a talk of his: these Israel haters he sees at the universities never think of anything positive to do in Gaza – all they ever do is scream hate speech against Israel. He asked them: why dont’ you got to Gaz aand teach Palestinian kids English? for example.
He himself says he works in Israel for a Jewish* newspaper because there it’s a free press and he can write what he likes.
he does not want to work in Gaza because it is a mini Islamic state and there is no free press, and he would be controlled by Hamas, which, by the way, keeps a very close eye on everything there.
*Oh no, he works for a Jewish newspaper. He can’t possibly be OBJECTIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!;)
Editors Note: This comment has been deleted at the request of a person named in it.
It is the policy of WBT that we do not publish the names of people who do not wish to be named and request a deletion of comment about them.
Of course, this does not apply to public figures like Benjamin Netanyahu
Ian ” We do not know the Israeli commandos account because none (to my knowledge) have made their claims face to face as one eyewitness,”
YOU may not know, because all you do is listen to Hamas operatives ie K. O Keefe. (He is very proud of his Palestinian passport. By the way, suspicious that he couldn’t was his face in the few hours between his release and his chat to the cameras, hmm?)
But I will give you the main one:
http://www.idfspokesperson.com. The source of the army videos, including an account by one of the soldiers of what they encountered on the boat.
Go to the video section of what happened on the Mavi Marmara. It’s clearly marked.
“If the people aboard the ship were terrorists why didn’t they kill Israeli commandos when they had the chance. ”
Those terrorists left Turkey chanting the jihadi chant. they were on Turkish TV.
If you visit the site of this link (below) you will see a whole bunch of videos – this one and those on the sidebar – detailing the thoughts, actions and intentions of these terrorists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSYjuDEZw1w&feature=player_embedded
You say that not even the Israeli Propaganda machine” ! claims they killed anyone. no, israelis were not killed because after forty minutes of being pounded they sensibly realised they had to defend themselves and one of the soldiers killed six of the Turkish terrorists.
By the way, Harry’s right – you chose to attack me and completely ignored his post, in which he explains the whole blockade issue and its legality very clearly.
No Ian, I say “say ‘enough of the piracy piffle” in response to Pete (above):
P Daws, on June 18, 2010 at 4:02 am said:
“You all and that senator seem to miss the point. Israel indulged in PIRACY in international waters. ”
My point is that, like other countries who have has similar issues and dealt with them in like fashion, Israel dealt with the blockade runners legally ie according to the provisions of international and maritime law.
this use of the term “piracy” is an attempt to create Israel as a criminal. Par for the course in a lot of rhetoric i’ve read, of course, but it’s here too.
hence my statement, “enough of this piracy piffle”. I hope that’s clear now.
You’re quite right Ian, you did not “deplore” the sponsored visit by Sen. Peter Ryan.
I, however, did not deplore Chrissy’s “typos”. “left bank” is not a typo, it is a completely different term to the one she meant, which is “West Bank”.
I’ve made too many typos through hasty typing to criticise others for the same mistake. it’s easy to do and not an issue. But a misused TERM is another matter completely.
It is very plain that Chrissy knows nothing of what hse writes. I am calling her on it. Why would you defend her content?
Don’t know why there is a smiley face there. Not intended.
You obviously did not read my previous post. When Somalia do it they do it to nearby passing ships where there is no stated blockade, they are not warned to stop, their cargo is stolen and their ship and the passengers are held for ransom. When Israel took action against the flotilla, the boats had clear intent on entering Gaza, breaking a legal military blockade, were warned to stop and bring the humanitarian aid to Ashdod port (where it would all be passed through to Gaza except military materials under the activists’ supervision), the Mavi Marmara did not comply, told the IDF communicator to go back to Auschwitz, and when they were boarded by commandos they showed fatal resistance such as throwing stun grenades, stabbing soldiers and hitting them with metal bars. They lynched soldiers which were doing their legal job and then they cry about disproportionate retaliation. Israel soldiers were supposed to let extremists stab them to death?
The military blockade is indeed legal because the military, legal and economic command of Gaza has declared itself in a state of war with Israel. American blockades of Japan and Germany were legal in WW2. Why not now when Israel needs to do it? 🙂
Also, boarding the ship is perfectly legal, the other boats didn’t show any resistance and no one was killed and the humanitarian aid was indeed delivered with activist supervision. A military which is conducting a state action (interception of ships breaking a legal blockade) is expected to use force. Given that there was an obvious stated goal of defying the blockade, international waters or not it was still legal to intercept the ship. When you call something “illegal” or “piracy” you need to know the terms’ meanings and the conditions of the scenarios.
If you avoid MSM then why do you comment or read online news material?
Read what I wrote, THEN criticise if you so wish.
With regards to using the activists debit cards and cell phones I don’t know the details. However, I would assume that it is normal military procedure to view past purchases of suspects and to see past phone calls and potential links to terrorism or the sort. Keep in mind that most passengers which were detained were processed within 1 and a half days.
Harry.
When Somalia does it it is piracy, when Israel does it its self defence? WTF?
And shill is yiddish, look it up
And I avoid MSM like the plague.
And how about Israeli soldiers using the activists debit cards and cell phones…. How venal can they get?
Pete
That statement Pete not only made little sense but completely avoided my previous comments.
You are attacking a country with no basis for your argument and you conveniently avoid valid points that I have put forward.
Either educate yourself and then give your opinions or simply stop chanting biased anti-Zionist slogans found in mainstream media.
Harry
Bought and paid for shills by the isreali lobby caLL FOR NO ANSWER WHATSOEVER
Pete
You attack her but you ignore my statements. Maybe read my stuff first before you re-raise issues such as whether or not it was piracy because according to international law, it wasn’t.
And Ian, also, by reading what i wrote you would have read what a commando said. Either that or you can look at this entire debate subjectively against what you claim and say automatically that Israelis are in the wrong. If the way you describe things are actually correct then sure, Israel was wrong, however, facts show otherwise. I will not re-explain because I have already explained it.
Read it THEN argue rather than ignore my points.
Jill,
You attack Chrissy for her typos and lack of understanding of the region where she refers to the Left Bank instead of the West bank, (sic). Further, you claim that Chrissy ‘know(s) no history whatsoever’ and you make the assertion that she ‘does not care anyway’.
What about your own lack of care and accuracy? I am not talking about typos here.
Where in my article “Federal parliament used as a forum for Israeli lies” did I deplore Senator Ryan’s ‘paid for trip to Israel’?
Although I did not say it in my article I think that Scott Ryan should have declared at the outset of his speech to the parliament who his sponsor was on that trip to Palestine and who paid for what, where he went and who took him there.
For example did he go to Gaza? Did he go to the West Bank? Did he speak with Palestinian representatives? Did he attempt to get an objective account of what went on in Gaza when Israeli planes and tanks killed over 1500 people, many of them children. Senator Ryan should have declared this so that people who are interested in an objective account of what happened on board the ‘Mavi Mamara’ know his interest in the matter.
Scott Ryan gave a highly contentious account of what happened on the ‘Mavi Mamara’. He was not there. His account is not supported by hundreds of passengers when Israeli commandos boarded the vessel from heliocopters and Israeli warships.
You claim to have eyewitness accounts from the Israeli commandos themselves. We do not know the Israeli commandos account because none (to my knowledge) have made their claims face to face as one eyewitness, Ken O’Keefe, did within hours of him being beaten bloody by Israeli guards. The beating was so recent that he still had the blood caked on his face.
If the people aboard the ship were terrorists why didn’t they kill Israeli commandos when they had the chance. On Ken O’Keefe’s version he had disarmed two commandos and had them at his mercy. But he and the other passengers chose not to kill anyone even though their friends had already been killed by the very same commandos. Not even the Israeli propaganda machine claims that the people aboard the ‘Mavi Mamara’ killed anyone.
The objectve facts are that all the killing was done by Israeli soldiers who came onboard without permission of the captain in international waters.
The truth is this account and many others do not come from the mouths of terrorists or liars, they come from the mouths of people concerned about human rights in Gaza, about the killing of innocent people who have been made refugees in their own land.
You then say ‘enough of the piracy piffle’ presumably in response to the claim by the captain of the Mavi Mamara that his ship was raided in international waters by armed Israeli commandos who proceeded to kill his passengers.
Of course, we have heard the outrage of armed men boarding ships in international waters, killing passengers on board who attempt to resist and then forcing their ship to the hijackers’ home port.
Israeli commandos? No, Somali pirates who are preying on Western ships in the Indian Ocean. How dare those terrorists touch our unarmed vessels on the high seas? And how right we are to have our warships there to prevent such terrorist acts.
Don’t you think the world is growing tired of the hypocrisy of the likes of Senator Ryan acting as a mouthpiece for organisations like the Australia/Israel Jewish Affairs council?
What I am looking for is the truth behind what Senator Ryan claims in the Australian parliament under the guise of a disinterested, objective account.
Using the protection of parliamentary privilege, Senator Scott Ryan sought to attack the ‘TIME TO HOLD ISRAEL ACCOUNTABLE’ ads placed in national newspapers by Australians for Palestine.
Jill, if you have any connection with Senator Ryan, you may know that it is a serious offence to knowingly lie or to mislead the parliament in Australia.
Ian Curr
June 2010
apologies for typos.
Er Chrissy, you talk abotu the “left bank”. That’s in PARIS.
I believe you mean to refer to what Jordan calls the West Bank, which in Israel is referred to Judea and Samaria, land belonging to ISRAEL under the Mandate, which Jordan INVADED in 1948, as well as INVADING East Jerusalem. the Land for the ARABS designated Palestine is Jordan – under the Mandate.
It is very complicated, all this – it helps if you give a shit about the truth and actual history, which is that ancient and modern israel is aJewish terrortiry, despite being invaded by Romans, Baylonians, Muslims, to mention but a few. Jews were there WAY befofre the Chrisitians, and both Jews and Chrisitians were there WAY before the Muslim Arabs that poured out of arabia in the 7th century under Mohammad’s command. And then the perverisyt of Islam hit all the Middle east countries like never before, even Egypt – an originally Chrisitian country, being overwhelmed to this day by Muslims (but let’s save the current massacre of Coptic Chrisitians for another day).
However, Chrissy it’s pretty plain you just want to campaign for the Palestinian Arabs, as do many here on this blog, so why try to justify it by spurious claims to a bedtime story made up to makle Muslims feel better abotu the fact that Israel is not their country>? (Except for the Israeli Arab citizensof course).
You clearly know no history whatsoever and you don’t care anyway. You just want to desptry Israel, s does Pete et al. Just admit it, and save the arguments over laws and battle regulations for people who can read.
Oh- and enough of the piracy piffle. There’s no comparison and you know it. Just because you don’t like Israelis owning their own land doesn’t mean you get to make shit up.
Well now, i saw clips on Turklish TV where the IHH Turkish terrorist members of the Muslims Brotherhood (otherwise labelld ‘peace activists”) were yelling “kahaybar Khaybar OJews, the army of Muhammad will return”.
This references a 7th century massacre of Jews by Muhammad and his troops. Each one of those Turks was a trained jihadi, and expressed a desire to go to Gaza or die a jihadi “martyr’s” s death.
And what is all this piracy stuff? Are commenters here so illiterate they cannot look up perfectly plain laws of the sea and those governing blockades, which every government in the world including Israel/Australia etc is entitled to guard, defend and otherwise safeguard boundaries of their countries?
Your love for the Gazans is perverse. You express it only in terms of hatred for Israel, which sends in 15 ooo tons of supplies a week, employs a shedload of Palestinian Arabs in factories, building, even the greenhouses that were donated to them but then turned into hamas training camps.
Very curious that even the working relationships of Arabs in Israel seem more logical than the hatred I find here and on similar blogs.
israeli Arabs don’t even pay municipal taxes in Israel!
Still back to the Turks. When they acknowledge their massacre of the Armenians, stop occupying Cyprus and stop oppressing the Kurds, then perhaps they can be deemed fit to comment on anything to do with any humanitarian issue.
But then Erdogan would have to stop allying himself with the insane Islamist killing machine of Iran and Syria and stop sponsoring the IHH Muslim Brotherhood group that shares a heritage with Hamas and Hezbollah.
As for the “Free gaza” movement, their alliance with the ISM is well known, as is the ISM’s support for Hamas. Started by Bill Ayres and Bernardine Dohrm, members of the 60s Weather Underground, they have terrorist antecedents from old “radical chic” days. But they’re just well-paid terrorists.
Lastly, pretty funny you deploring Ryan’s paid for trip to Israel. EVERY country brings politicians and writers to visit, especially when they need to see for themselves what is going on, and with all the lies coming out of the media and its pet lobby groups and Free Gaza useful ididots, its’ no wonder people need to go to see for themselves what is going on.
Hamas takes the passports of journalists in Gaza and control every move they make – they know if they publish anything against them they’ll be killed. there is no free press in Gaza, there is no free anything in any Hamas-controlled territory.
Hence, this was legal and not an act of Piracy. Especially given that Israel is in a state of war with Hamas. Most governments would not let anything through (as history has clearly showed).
Also, the point you are missing chrissy is that Israeli commandos did not attack the activists until they were stabbed and lynched first. That shows a great deal of tolerance by any government.
For those who question the legal aspects of Israel’s recent operations:
Q&A: Is Israel’s naval blockade of Gaza legal?
Wed, Jun 02 09:16 AM EDT
By Jonathan Saul
LONDON (Reuters) – Israel has said it will continue a naval blockade of the Gaza Strip despite growing global pressure to lift the siege after a navy raid on a Turkish ferry carrying aid killed nine activists this week.
What is the legality of the blockade and did Israel’s intervention breach international law? Below are some questions and answers on the issue:
CAN ISRAEL IMPOSE A NAVAL BLOCKADE ON GAZA?
Yes it can, according to the law of blockade which was derived from customary international law and codified in the 1909 Declaration of London. It was updated in 1994 in a legally recognized document called the “San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea.”
Under some of the key rules, a blockade must be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral states, access to neutral ports cannot be blocked, and an area can only be blockaded which is under enemy control.
“On the basis that Hamas is the ruling entity of Gaza and Israel is in the midst of an armed struggle against that ruling entity, the blockade is legal,” said Philip Roche, partner in the shipping disputes and risk management team with law firm Norton Rose.
WHAT ARE INTERNATIONAL WATERS?
Under the U.N. Convention of the Law of the Sea a coastal state has a “territorial sea” of 12 nautical miles from the coast over which it is sovereign. Ships of other states are allowed “innocent passage” through such waters.
There is a further 12 nautical mile zone called the “contiguous zone” over which a state may take action to protect itself or its laws.
“However, strictly beyond the 12 nautical miles limit the seas are the “high seas” or international waters,” Roche said.
The Israeli navy said on Monday the Gaza bound flotilla was intercepted 120 km (75 miles) west of Israel. The Turkish captain of one of the vessels told an Istanbul news conference after returning home from Israeli detention they were 68 miles outside Israeli territorial waters.
Under the law of a blockade, intercepting a vessel could apply globally so long as a ship is bound for a “belligerent” territory, legal experts say.
CAN ISRAEL USE FORCE WHEN INTERCEPTING SHIPS?
Under international law it can use force when boarding a ship.
“If force is disproportionate it would be a violation of the key tenets of the use of force,” said Commander James Kraska, professor of international law at the U.S. Naval War College.
Israeli authorities said marines who boarded the Turkish vessel Mavi Marmara opened fire in self-defense after activists clubbed and stabbed them and snatched some of their weapons.
Legal experts say proportional force does not mean that guns cannot be used by forces when being attacked with knives.
“But there has got to be a relationship between the threat and response,” Kraska said.
The use of force may also have other repercussions.
“While the full facts need to emerge from a credible and transparent investigation, from what is known now, it appears that Israel acted within its legal rights,” said J. Peter Pham, a strategic adviser to U.S. and European governments.
“However, not every operation that the law permits is necessarily prudent from the strategic point of view.”
OPPONENTS HAVE CALLED ISRAEL’S RAID “PIRACY.” WAS IT?
No, as under international law it was considered a state action.
“Whether what Israel did is right or wrong, it is not an act of piracy. Piracy deals with private conduct particularly with a pecuniary or financial interest,” Kraska said.
For links to the maritime declarations click on: http://www.icrc.org/IHL.nsf/52d68d14de6160e0c12563da005fdb1b/7694fe2016f347e1c125641f002d49ce!OpenDocument
Source:
http://us.mobile.reuters.com/mobile/m/AnyArticle/p.rdt?URL=http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65133D20100602
http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/1909b.htm
You all and that senator seem to miss the point. Israel indulged in PIRACY in international waters. The government of Israel is in violation of so many international laws that it is not funny.
Who cares if the peace activists fought with PIRATES. They were defending themselves.
And I dare say that the senator would pick up anything handy and defend himself too if he was in a similar situation.
At least the senator is an honest politician. He stays bought.
Pete
The road to disaster is ordered by the righteous, planned by the well meaning, and paved with their good intentions.
Israelis up in arms follwing breaking of internatonal law – so what.s new They blew u a hotel in the 50s killing many men women and children ( mostly British ) Naturally noone was taken to task , All thr-e Isreilis needed to do was to arrange to have united Nation troops standing by at the landing place to check for weapons
Had sen Ryn not accepted the money and hospitalit of Israel before coming up with this claptrap people might listen . as it is it looks like bribery .We seem to forget all the terrorist activities of Israel They are no saints Neither are Hamas Israel refuses to leave the left bank , granted to Palestine under the mandate . If I were being attacked bi armed soldiwes I woud fight back with anything I could find
Well, for example, Norman Paech, a 72-year-old German pro-Palestinian activist on board the Mavi Marmara described how injured soldiers were brought downstairs first and then the radicals who were confronting them. If Israelis were killing people first then surely the activists would have been the first to arrive downstairs for treatment.
Also, if you’d like to analyse witness accounts then why not read a statement from a commando: “They jumped me, hit me with clubs and bottles and stole my rifle. I pulled out my pistol and had no choice but to shoot.”
Also, I’m not sure if you saw the videos of Israeli soldiers coming onto the boat and being attacked immediately. This perspective is shown by both the passengers’ footage and the Israeli footage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LulDJh4fWI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2duPV9MQIc&feature=channel
On top of that, what makes you think, other than the accounts from the actually peaceful activists, that all of the passengers were truly peaceful?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk&feature=related… See more
Even if you ignore all the evidence and accounts, another point that you are missing is that if Israeli commandos were already shooting the passengers then there would have been no chance for any of the activists to get close enough to army personnel to “grab the weapons”. The weapons would have been in the commandos’ hands and shooting. There are only two ways that both sides could have been shooting. Either the activists stole guns and stabbed and shot the commandos who came on with peaceful intentions (which means that the activists were not peaceful), OR the activists already had their own weaponry (in which case stopping the ship was more than justified).
Hello Harry,
I question your objectivity on this.
After seeing passengers shot at close range by Israeli commandos they (the activists) tried to grab the weapons to stop the killing…
Here are the answers to your false allegations by one of the activists on the Mavi Mamara, Ken O’Keefe.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeUhwELoKWo]
Ian Curr
June 2010
He was most probably violent against the Israeli guards. That happens in all prisons, especially temporary ones. The fact that he was processed so quickly shows the humane side of the IDF.
Needless to say that he may very well have been one of many on the ship who were attempting to vilify Israel and legitimise a terrorist group that kills civilians.
Perhaps he also was lying about his experiences given that his goal was to show that Israel is in the wrong either way. Others in his position said that they were treated fairly and processed very quickly.